about tax hikes. is that the wrong message? >> yeah. it's the wrong message. let's go back to when toby was a teen-ager under calvin coolidge. [ laughter ] he took down woodrow wilson's high rate all the way down, created a huge boom. ronald reagan did the same thing. the democrats have railed against the bush tax cuts. they made them permanent. and now they realize oh, my goodness, we need revenue. here is the problem. this isn't just a blip. we have structural unemployment. we have the lowest labor force participation since the early '80s. that's more than a blip. that's structural unemployment and this country is not designed to handle that. we could double, 100% raise taxes on americans, we would take $1.1 trillion. we can't get there through tax increases alone. we have to deal with spending cuts cuts and entitlements. >> we do need growth. part of what the president has been talking about and the democrat social security creating a balanced package. there will be some spending cuts but there are